The Witnesses

 

What most Latter-day Saints have been taught in church and believe as truth.

 

Significant details & problems that most Latter-day Saints are not aware of.

 

Witnesses to other amazing events.

 

Affidavits against Joseph.

 

How should it have been done?

 

Governor Ford’s thoughts.

 

Testimony of Abagail and Lucy Harris.

 

Analogy

 

Summary of the 11 Witnesses

 

Responses to these issues by faithful Latter-day Saints.

 

Ending summary by critics.

 

Our thoughts.

 

Links

 

Home Page


What most Latter-day Saints have been taught in church and believe as truth.

 

In every copy of the Book of Mormon is the signed statement by the witnesses of the BOM.  The three special witnesses saw the Angel Moroni and the plates.  The eight other witnesses just saw and handled the golden plates.

 

The 11 witnesses were all good, honorable men and regarded as upstanding members of the community.

 

The three special witnesses all saw the Angel and the plates together as a group.  The eight witnesses also saw the plates as a group.

 

Most members are aware that many of the witnesses, including all three of the special witnesses, apostatized and left the church.  Oliver Cowdery and perhaps Martin Harris rejoined the church shortly before they died.

 

Although many of the witnesses left the church, none of them ever denied their testimony regarding seeing the plates.

 

The witnesses’ testimonies are regarded as literally being true.  They all did in fact see and touch the plates with their own eyes and hands.

 

 

 The title page of the Book of Mormon reads: 

 The Testimony Of Three Witnesses

BE IT KNOWN unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens.. And the honor be to the Father, & to the Son, & to the Holy Ghost, which is One God. Amen.'

Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

 

And Also The Testimony Of Eight Witnesses

BE IT KNOWN unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold ; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer         Joseph Smith, Sr.
Jacob Whitmer Hyrum Smith
Peter Whitmer              Hiram Page

John Whitmer               Samuel H. Smith

 

 

 

 

Significant details & problems that most Latter-day Saints are not aware of.

 

 

The following two essays provide a very good analysis of the arguments against the witnesses by critics.  Note:  these essays are very similar with many common elements.  Please do not skip reading the following essays as the information presented below is for the most part, in addition to what’s presented in those two essays.

 

http://www.irr.org/mit/bom-wit-pt1.html

 

 

http://www.exmormon.org/file9.htm

 

 

 

 

Here are a few key points from the essays listed above.

 

1)      The witnesses’ experiences may have only been visionary in nature.  There are many statements given by the witnesses that indicate they only saw the angel and the plates in a visionary experience.  Why would people need to see real, physical plates in a vision or a real angel that was physically on the earth?  There are also several statements saying that the only time they saw the plates was when the plates were covered in a cloth or tow frock.

 

2)      The witnesses did not all see the plates or angel at the same time.  The plates were seen in two groups of four not all eight together as popularized in church paintings.  Only David Whitmer and perhaps Oliver Cowdery saw the angel together.  Martin Harris removed himself from the group and did not see the angel until perhaps three days later.  Why is this significant?  Any magician will tell you that it is easier to deceive people in smaller groups.

 

3)      David Whitmer said “If you believe my testimony to the Book of Mormon; if you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens, and told me to separate myself from among the Latter-day Saints, for as they sought to do unto me, so should it be done unto them.”    So which statement was David Whitmer lying about or had been mistaken about?  Either way he doesn’t sound like a completely trustworthy witness.

 

4)      All the witnesses had close ties to Joseph and his family.  Some like Martin Harris had a substantial financial investment in the success of the Book of Mormon. 

 

5)      These men lived in the early 1800s and believed in magical things like many people did during that time period such as divining rods, second sight, seer stones, etc.  Some of the witnesses, especially Martin Harris, were easily swayed by tales of the supernatural, especially in a religious context.

 

6)      Many of the witnesses ended up leaving the church and following other leaders and religions such as Jesse Strang, the Shakers, Methodists, etc.  By 1847 not a single one of the surviving eleven witnesses was part of the LDS Church.

 

7)      Of the witnesses that left the church, most believed that Joseph was at best a fallen prophet, the church changed its doctrines in error and changed revelations against God’s will.

 

8)      The witness, who have been heralded as good, honest, Abe Lincoln-type of men were later called liars, counterfeiters, thieves, etc. by Joseph Smith himself.

 

 

 

 

Witnesses to other amazing events

 

Many people that whole-heartedly believe the Book of Mormon witnesses do so because they have a hard time thinking that these people would either lie or could have been deceived.  That’s fair enough.  But why then should we not believe the witnesses to the following stories:

 

SOLOMON SPAULDING WITNESSES

There are seven witnesses that say Solomon Spalding was the author of the Book of Mormon.  Seven people wrote affidavits testifying that they had read early drafts of the Book of Mormon by author Solomon Spalding.  In some ways they are more credible as they each wrote their own account instead of merely signing a prepared statement.

 

Here’s the testimony of the first of these seven witnesses, the brother of Solomon Spalding:

 

He [Solomon] then told me had he been writing a book, which he intended to have printed, the avails of which he thought would enable him to pay all his debts. The book was entitled the “Manuscript Found,” of which he read to me many passages. -- It was an historical romance of the first settlers of America, endeavoring to show that the American Indians are the descendants of the Jews, or the lost tribes. It gave a detailed account of their journey from Jerusalem, by land and sea, till they arrived in America, under the command of NEPHI AND LEHI. They afterwards had quarrels and contentions, and separated into two distinct nations, one of which he denominated Nephites and the other Lamanites. Cruel and bloody wars ensued, in which great multitudes were slain. They buried their dead in large heaps, which caused the mounds so common in this country. Their arts, sciences and civilization were brought into view, in order to account for all the curious antiquities, found in various [280] parts of North and South America. I have recently read the Book of Mormon, and to my great surprize I find nearly the same historical matter, names, &c. as they were in my brother’s writings. I well remember that he wrote in the old style, and commenced about every sentence with “and it came to pass,” or “now it came to pass,” the same as in the Book of Mormon, and according to the best of my recollection and belief, it is the same as my brother Solomon wrote, with the exception of the religious matter. -- By what means it has fallen into the hands of Joseph Smith, Jr. I am unable to determine.
JOHN SPALDING.”

 

To read the rest of the witnesses claiming Solomon Spalding wrote the book that was modified into the Book of Mormon:

http://www.mormonstudies.com/witness.htm

 

Obviously both sets of witnesses cannot be correct.  At least one set, possibly both sets, of witnesses were either lying or were mistaken or deceived.  Which group is to be believed or are they both in error? 

 

We’re not saying we believe the Spalding witnesses over the Book of Mormon witnesses, but it proves the point that just because a group of people claims something extraordinary happened to them, it doesn’t make it so.

 

For more on the Spaulding theories:

http://mormonstudies.com/criddle/rigdon.htm

 

 

 

JESSE STRANG WITNESSES

http://www.strangite.org

 

LDS leader Jesse Strang claimed to be the true prophet that succeeded Joseph after he was killed.  Many people followed Strang after he sent a letter claiming he had received a revelation that he should be prophet.

The letter convinced most of Smith's family and several other prominent Mormons that Strang's claims were genuine. John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, Hiram Page, John E. Page, William E. McLellin, William Smith, Smith's first wife and widow, Emma Hale Smith, the sisters of Joseph Smith, William Marks, George Miller, and others, including Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith. Lucy wrote to Reuben Hedlock: "I am satisfied that Joseph appointed J.J. Strang. It is verily so."(ibid) According to William Smith, all of Joseph Smith's family (excepting Hyrum Smith's widow), endorsed Strang; (Palmer, 211)

Here we have all of the living Book of Mormon witnesses, except Oliver Cowdery, as well as most of Smith’s family and several other prominent members of the early LDS church accept Strang’s claim of being a prophet by merely reading his letter.  How much credibility can we give these people when they accept someone so easily as a prophet who later turns out to be a fraud?

In all, about 12,000 Latter-day saints recognized Strang's claims.  A smaller group followed him to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan.

Most of his initial followers, including those listed above, would leave Strang's church before his death.  Some eventually followed Brigham Young, but Smith's immediate family never did, and many of them formed the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a few years later.

There are many witnesses to Jesse Strang’s claim of having unearthed metal plates which he translated into scripture.  Strang's translation of the metal plates was transcribed by Samuel Graham, and published as Book of the Law of the Lord, said to be the original law as it was given to Moses.

The following is from the first page of the Book of the Law of the Lord with  the testimony of the witnesses to the plates from which the book was translated from.  Does this sound familiar?

T E S T I M O N Y .

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, to whom this Book of the Law of the Lord shall come, that James J. Strang has the plates of the ancient Book of the Law of the Lord given to Moses, from which he translated this law, and has shown them to us. We examined them with our eyes, and handled them with our hands. The engravings are beautiful antique workmanship, bearing a striking resemblance to the ancient oriental languages; and those from which the laws in this book were translated are eighteen in number, about seven inches and three-eights wide, by nine inches long, occasionally embellished with beautiful pictures.

And we testify unto you all that the everlasting kingdom of God is established, in which this law shall be kept, till it brings in rest and everlasting righteousness to all the faithful.

SAMUEL GRAHAM,
SAMUEL P. BACON,
WARREN POST,
PHINEAS WRIGHT,
ALBERT N. HOSMER,
EBENEZER PAGE,
JEHIEL SAVAGE.

http://www.strangite.org/Law.htm

 

Here’s the detailed accounts of several witnesses that seem very similar to the BOM witnesses:

 

Testimony of Witnesses to the Voree Plates.

1. On the thirteenth day of September, 1845, we, Aaron Smith, Jirah B. Wheelan, James M. Van Nostrand, and Edward Whitcomb, assembled at the call of James J. Strang, who is by us and many others approved as a Prophet and Seer of God. He proceeded to inform us that it had been revealed to him in a vision that an account of an ancient people was buried in a hill south of White River bridge, near the east line of Walworth County; and leading us to an oak tree about one foot in diameter, told us that we would find it enclosed in a case of rude earthen ware under that tree at the depth of about three feet; requested us to dig it up, and charged us to so examine the ground that we should know we were not imposed upon, and that it had not been buried there since the tree grew. The tree was surrounded by a sward of deeply rooted grass, such as is usually found in the openings, and upon the most critical examination we could not discover any indication that it had ever been cut through or disturbed.

2. We then dug up the tree, and continued to dig to the depth of about three feet, where we found a case of slightly baked clay containing three plates of brass. On one side of one is a landscape view of the south end of Gardner's prairie and the range of hills where they were dug. On another is a man with a crown on his head and a scepter in his hand, above is an eye before an upright line, below the sun and moon surrounded with twelve stars, at the bottom are twelve large stars from three of which pillars arise, and closely interspersed with them are seventy very small stars. The other four sides are very closely covered with what appear to be alphabetic characters, but in a language of which we have no knowledge.

3. The case was found imbedded in indurated clay so closely fitting it that it broke in taking out, and the earth below the soil was so hard as to be dug with difficulty even with a pickax. Over the case was found a flat stone about one foot wide each way and three inches thick, which appeared to have undergone the action of fire, and fell in pieces after a few minutes exposure to the air. The digging extended in the clay about eighteen inches, there being two kinds of earth of different color and appearance above it.

4. We examined as we dug all the way with the utmost care, and we say, with utmost confidence, that no part of the earth through which we dug exhibited any sign or indication that it had been moved or disturbed at any time previous. The roots of the tree stuck down on every side very closely, extending below the case, and closely interwoven with roots from other trees. None of them had been broken or cut away. No clay is found in the country like that of which the case is made.

5. In fine, we found an alphabetic and pictorial record, carefully cased up, buried deep in the earth, covered with a flat stone, with an oak tree one foot in diameter growing over it, with every evidence that the sense can give that it has lain there as long as that tree has been growing. Strang took no part in the digging, but kept entirely away from before the first blow was struck till after the plates were taken out of the case; and the sole inducement to our digging was our faith in his statement as a Prophet of the Lord that a record would thus and there be found.

AARON SMITH,
JIRAH B. WHEELAN,
J. M. VAN NOSTRAND,
EDWARD WHITCOMB.

http://www.strangite.org/Reveal.htm

 

 

Strang actually had his plates in a museum for all to see for a time.  If he was a fraud then it was obvious that he had made a prop of sufficient quality to fool a prolonged, detailed visual inspection by the public.  This shows that making a prop of ancient plates during Joseph’s time wasn’t all that difficult.  Also Joseph’s plates were never shown in public and were always covered and if they were ever actually shown to the witnesses, it was only very briefly. 

 

Jesse also reportedly had someone coated with phosphorescent paint to appear to be an angel in order to have witnesses that really believed in him.

 

Note 3: For an exemplary "amusing experiment" involving phosphorus, see Patriarch William Smith's 1849 account of how the Mormon leader James J. Strang made serruptitious use of the glowing substance in a darkened room: "The phosphorus then gave a most brilliant light upon the heads of the saints. The Holy Ghost was poured out in this way, and the sign given that Strang was a prophet." Elder J. J. Moss, who observed the advent of Mormonism at Kirtland, Ohio, provided his opinion of how the luminous angels observed thereabouts (David Whitmer saw one at the Temple) might have been similarly manufactured: "The Morley family would invite strangers... to stay with them all night & every one that stayed however strong their opposition before were baptized the next morning. Having studied in my boyhood the Black Art Ledgerdemain & jugling I had my suspicions aroused... & I told how Angels could be manufactured & strange wonders made to appear in the night & from that time forth invitations to stay over night ceased to be given & no more converts were made in that way..." etc., etc.

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/wayn1830.htm#061230   (click on the link to "RF June 12 '30")

 

Strang’s plates have since been lost and he continues to have a following even today by those who believe his story the same as the faithful LDS believe Joseph’s story, when no plates exist today to be examined for both Joseph Smith and Jesse Strang.

 

References

http://www.strangite.org/Law.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jesse_Strang

http://www.strangite.org/Plates.htm

http://mormoninquiry.typepad.com/mormon_inquiry/2006/05/the_man_who_wou.html

http://www.terrypepper.com/Lights/closeups/strang/strang.htm

http://www.strangite.org/

http://www.strangite.org/Famous.htm

 

 

THE SHAKERS – ANNE LEE

The Shakers felt that "Christ has made his second appearance on earth, in a chosen female known by the name of Ann Lee, and acknowledged by us as our Blessed Mother in the work of redemption" (Sacred Roll and Book, p.358).  The Shakers, of course, did not believe the Book of Mormon, but they had a book entitled A Holy, Sacred and Divine Roll and Book; From the Lord God of Heaven, to the Inhabitants of Earth.  More than sixty individuals gave testimony to the Sacred Roll and Book, which was published in 1843.  Although not all of them mention angels appearing, some of them tell of many angels visiting them—one woman told of eight different visions.

 

Martin Harris joined the Shakers for about two years.  Here is the statement of members of the Shakers:

We, the undersigned, hereby testify, that we saw the holy Angel standing upon the house-top, as mentioned in the foregoing declaration, holding the Roll and Book.

Betsey Boothe.
Louisa Chamberlain.
Caty De Witt.
Laura Ann Jacobs.

Sarah Maria Lewis.
Sarah Ann Spencer.
Lucinda McDoniels.
Maria Hedrick.

Joseph Smith only had three witnesses who claimed to see an angel. The Shakers, however, had a large number of witnesses who claimed they saw angels and the Roll and Book.  There are over a hundred pages of testimony from "Living Witnesses."  The evidence seems to show that Martin Harris accepted the Sacred Roll and Book as a divine revelation.  Clark Braden stated: "Harris declared repeatedly that he had as much evidence for a Shaker book he had as for the Book of Mormon" (The Braden and Kelly Debate, p.173).

 

Why should we believe the Book of Mormon witnesses but not the Shakers witnesses?  What are we to make of Martin Harris’s comment that he had as much evidence for the Shaker book he had as for the Book of Mormon?

http://christiandefense.org/LDS%20Three%20Witnesses.htm

 

 

 

VIRGIN MARY SIGHTINGS

The are countless stories of people, even groups of people, that claim to have see the Virgin Mary.  These people are almost always Catholics and they take this as a sign that the Catholic Church is true and they are following God’s correct path.  Obviously if all these people are really witnessing visions of the Virgin Mary, then how can the LDS church be true?

 

There is a well-known vision of the Virgin Mary to three children at Fatima and subsequent regular visits and prophesies regarding world events.  http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_12.htm

 

 

 

ALIEN ABDUCTION CASE – TRAVIS WALTON

On November 5, 1975, seven men witnessed a spacecraft from another world hovering silently between tall pines in the Apache-Sitgreaves National forest of north-eastern Arizona.  One of those men, Travis Walton, became an unwilling captive of an alien race when the other men fled in fear. 

There were seven witnesses to this event.  They all passed lie-detector tests and none of them have ever recounted their story.  This was even made into a movie called ‘Fire in the Sky’ with James Garner playing the sheriff who investigated the story. 

We don’t know if the story is really true or not but if it is our country and even the world is in serious danger.  Any human could be abducted by aliens at any time and subjected to horrific medical tests as Travis Walton claimed was performed on him by beings from another planet.  Yet if it was true, wouldn’t the governments and the people of the world be more concerned about this?  Or is it that, despite the fact that we have seven honorable witnesses to the event and no evidence of a fraud, we really don’t believe these witnesses?     http://www.travis-walton.com/index.shtml

 

 

 

ANGEL APPEARING TO MUHAMMAD

The appearance of the angel Gabriel to Muhammad and his subsequent divine commission to bring forth new scripture that, today, is revered by approximately 2 billion Muslims the world over.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad#The_first_revelations

 

 

 

OTHERS

There are many, many reported witnesses to UFOs, Bigfoot, the Lochness Monster, Abominable Snowman, alien abductions, etc.  There are literally hundreds of thousands of witnesses to these amazing phenomena.  Should they be believed as well? 

 

The famous Lochness Monster photo taken in 1934 by a surgeon was believed to be genuine by many people due to the credibility of the witness.  It wasn’t until March 1994 that it was revealed that the "surgeon's picture" was a practical joke after all by his son, Ian.

 

The famous 1967 Bigfoot video referred to as the Patterson video was believed by many people to be genuine as well.  One of the main reasons was the credibility of one of the witnesses.  He seemed very sincere in his statements and had a very good upstanding reputation as an honest man. 

 

It wasn’t until many years later that he started to believe that he was tricked.  He now thinks he was carefully led down a ravine where someone had been waiting in an ape suit to purposely trick him.  The best witness of course is someone that really believes he saw the event.  The Book of Mormon witnesses may have been deceived as well and were not lying as far as they were concerned.

 

Many fantastic stories that have had numerous witnesses have been proved to be hoaxes yet many people still hold steadfast to their unbelievable claims.  It just proves that there are many, many people that have said, and will say, they are witnesses to very improbable events.  Many of these phenomena are in opposition to LDS church’s beliefs, so all of these other amazing accounts can’t be true despite the sheer number of witnesses, no matter how credible and sincere they seem to be.

 

What if the witnesses’ story happened now instead of 200 years ago?

We wonder how many of us would actually believe the Book of Mormon witnesses if they lived today instead of the 19th century.  Would you honestly believe a group of people that all told the story of some fantastic event if they lived when you did?  Frankly it’s easy to believe strange things as long as they happened a long time ago – the further back, the stranger i.e. Noah’s Ark.  But that doesn’t mean it actually happened just because it was 200 years ago and not today.

 

 

 

 

Affidavits against Joseph.

 

In contrast to what the BOM witnesses have stated, many members of the community that knew Joseph made the following sworn statements.  Go to the following link:

 

http://zarahemlacitylimits.com/wiki/index.php/Mormonism_Unvailed%2C_chapter_17

 

Many of these affidavits are in direct conflict with Joseph’s account of the beginnings of the LDS Church.  The following is an excerpt from just one of these affidavits.  It is a signed affidavit sworn out by Peter Ingersall before Judge Baldwin of Wayne County Court in New York in December, 1833.  He recounts what Joseph told him:

 

"As I was passing, yesterday, across the woods, after a heavy shower of rain, I found, in a hollow, some beautiful white sand, that had been washed up by the water. I took off my frock, and tied up several quarts of it, and then went home. On my entering the house, I found the family at the table eating dinner. They were all anxious to know the contents of my frock. At that moment, I happened to think of what I had heard about a history found in Canada, called the golden Bible; so I very gravely told them it was the golden Bible.

To my surprise, they were credulous enough to believe what I said. Accordingly I told them that I had received a commandment to let no one see it, for, says I, no man can see it with the naked eye and live. However, I offered to take out the book and show it to them, but they refuse to see it, and left the room." Now, said Jo, "I have got the damned fools fixed, and will carry out the fun." Notwithstanding, he told me he had no such book, and believed there never was any such book, yet, he told me that he actually went to Willard Chase, to get him to make a chest, in which he might deposit his golden Bible. But, as Chase would not do it, he made a box himself, of clap-boards, and put it into a pillow case, and allowed people only to lift it, and feel of it through the case.

 

Why should we believe all the Book of Mormon witnesses over the sworn affidavits of over dozens of unrelated townspeople?

 

Note: The LDS church must find Ingersoll’s affidavit somewhat credible as The Ensign magazine quoted from it, as well as Isaac Hale’s affidavit, as historical sources in an article about Joseph Smith’s early years.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.mormon/msg/98349bc70c2eb0ad

 

 

 

 

How should it have been done?

 

If someone was going to have witnesses to some earth-shattering event, and they wanted people to believe them, they would have done it very differently than Joseph did.  The whole witnesses’ portion of the BOM would have been much better served if the following things had been done:

 

1)      None of the witnesses should have been related to Joseph or each other.  Most of the witnesses were either related or good friends.  Having unrelated people as witnesses would be far more effective than using your brothers and father.

 

2)      The witnesses should not have already been eager believers.  There should have been some skeptics.

 

3)      There should have been no financial motive.  Martin Harris mortgaged his farm and invested some $5,000 of his own money into printing the Book of Mormon, so of course he had incentive to ‘promote’ the book.

 

4)       Each of the witnesses should each have written their own testimony instead of merely signing a prepared statement written by Joseph.  If the prepared document wasn’t 100% accurate many people would simply sign it anyway as it would be too much of a hassle to have it completely rewritten by hand – especially in the 1800s. 

 

5)       The witness should have been much more detailed about this amazing event.  What did the angel look like?  What exactly did he say?  How did he speak?    There are almost no details provided which can be analyzed and compared.  If each witness had simply written their own account and provided significant details then their individual testimonies could corroborate each other.

 

6)      The witnesses should have been interviewed independently immediately after going public.  They should have been interviewed the same way police do with witnesses to crimes or that investigators do with UFO cases.  Ask questions to see if their stories match;  How was the angel dressed?  How tall was he?  How did he speak?, etc.

 

7)      The witnesses should not have used subjective language and say strange things like comparing seeing the plates with seeing a city through a mountain or using spiritual eyes instead of their natural eyes to view physical plates.

 

8)      The witnesses should not have been gullible people that believed in things like ‘second sight’, divining rods, finding treasure by placing a rock in a hat, etc.  That the Three Witnesses were a gullible sort is illustrated by an incident in July, 1837.  Joseph had left on a five-week missionary tour to Canada, only to find on his return that all three of the Witnesses had joined a faction opposing him.  This faction rallied around a young girl who claimed to be a seeress by virtue of a black stone in which she read the future.  David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery all pledged her their loyalty, and Frederick G. Williams, formerly Joseph's First Counselor, became her scribe.  The girl seeress would dance herself into a state of exhaustion, fall to the floor, and burst forth with revelations. (See Lucy Smith: Biographical Sketches, pp. 211-213).

 

9)      All of the witness should have been much more vocal and been interviewed much more often.  There are very few interviews done with the witnesses that provide any additional information or corroboration of their statements.  You would think that these people, after seeing such a magnificent sight, would spend their time testifying to the world about their experience instead of largely just signing a prepared statement and avoiding interviews by the media.

 

10)  And of course it would have helped had all the witnesses remained loyal to the Church for the rest of their lives instead of having some of them abandon it later on.  It doesn’t make much sense to leave the true Church of God if you have really received an indisputable witness that it was true.

 

 

 

 

Governor Ford’s thoughts.

 

The governor of Illinois, Thomas Ford, who was very aware of the Mormon movement in his state, had given his own opinion as to how Joseph Smith collected the testimony of the witnesses, having known several well known men of Smith's acquaintance:

.. the witnesses were "set to continual prayer and other spiritual exercises." Then at last "he assembled them in a room, and produced a box, which he said contained the precious treasure. The lid was opened; the witnesses peeped into it, but making no discovery, for the box was empty, they said, "Brother Joseph, we do not see the plates." The prophet answered them, 'O ye of little faith! how long will God bear with this wicked and perverse generation? Down on your knees, brethren,  every one of you, and pray God for the forgiveness of your sins '.. The disciples dropped to their knees, and began to pray in the fervency of their spirit, supplicating God for more than two hours with fanatical earnestness; at the end of which time, looking again into the box, they were now persuaded that they saw the plates."

Through the sheer force of Smith's suggestions, coercive threats and their own earnest desire to see what he said was there, yet obscured by their "sinfulness", the eight men "saw" the plates.  This certainly is what Harris meant by seeing "plates" with the "eyes of faith" that did not exist.  Cowdery's own admission that he didn't see the plates at all during the translation work and his spasms of wavering faith that they existed certainly aren't faith building for Mormons, but they are disarmingly candid admissions.  What all of these men actually did was to help create a bogus set of testimonials to events and objects that never existed, except in their minds.

 

Note:  Some LDS apologists state that Governor Ford did not make this hypothesis or at least he wasn’t the first person to suggest this.  Whether or not that is true, this hypothesis is a reasonable one and cannot be dismissed – regardless of who may have said it first.

 

No Man Knows My History by Fawn McKay Brodie

http://www.spiritwatch.org/mobehbom.htm

 

 

 

 

Testimony of Abagail and Lucy Harris.

 

Here is some compelling testimony against Martin Harris, by two witnesses that knew him best:


Mrs. Abigail Harris: a sister-in-law of Martin Harris
". . . . Martin Harris and Lucy Harris, his wife, were at my house [early part of winter, 1828]. In conversation with the Mormonites, she [Lucy Harris] observed that she wished her husband would quit them, as she believed it all false and a delusion. To which I heard Mr. Harris reply: ‘What if it is a lie; if you will let me alone I will make money out of it!' I was both an eye- and ear-witness of what has been above stated, which is now fresh in my memory, and I speak the truth and lie not, God being my witness."

 

Lucy Harris: wife of Martin Harris
"Whether the Mormon religion be true or false, I leave the world to judge; for its effects on Martin Harris have been to make him more cross, turbulent and abusive to me. His whole object was to make money out of it. I will give a proof of this. One day at Peter Harris' house (Abigail Harris' husband) I told him he had better leave the company of the Smiths, as their religion was false. To this he replied, "If you would let me alone, I could make money out of it.' It is in vain for the Mormons to deny these facts, as they are well known to most of his former neighbors."

 

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY/miscNYC4.htm

http://www.carm.org/lds/unveiled2.htm

 

 

 

 

Analogy

 

As an analogy, say that 11 witnesses claimed to have seen a murder. Would that be enough evidence to have somebody executed?

To make this comparable to the Book of Mormon witnesses, let’s add some details.  There are two stores across the street from each other, and the respective owners don’t get along too well.  One of the owners claims that his rival committed murder, and says that he can prove it because he captured the act on his store’s video surveillance camera.  Rather than submitting the tape to the police, he invites over 11 of his good friends and family members.  He shows them the tape, and then asks that they sign a joint statement that he had earlier prepared. He then erases the tape.

No other evidence exists—there is no blood on the ground, no gunpowder residue on the hand of the accused, and no murder weapon.  In fact, there isn’t a body.  There isn’t even any evidence that the alleged victim even ever existed.  All we have is the statement written by the shop owner and signed by his friends that they saw the video tape which then conveniently vanished.

Based solely on their joint statement, would you convict?

We’re trying to illustrate a couple of things here.  First, the testimony of the eleven witnesses has a contrived feeling to it.  Usually, Joseph went to great lengths to prevent anybody from seeing the plates.  There aren’t any witnesses who were independent observers, much less reports from the careful examination of independent experts.  We just have a couple of carefully orchestrated and contrived events followed by jointly signing previously-prepared statements.

Secondly, we’re trying to illustrate what Grissom said, “Normally, an eyewitness is the least reliable evidence we have.”  If there were literally no physical evidence to support an eyewitness account of an event, and if the event in question is fantastical in nature, then the reasonable thing to do would be to disregard the witnesses.


Analytics

 

 

 

Joseph’s Persuasive Abilities

Joseph was able to convince people to pay him to locate buried treasure by looking at a rock placed in his hat.  Of course he never found any treasure.

Joseph was able to convince Martin Harris that if he looked at the golden plates, God would strike him dead.

Joseph was able to convince dozens of women that an angel with a sword threatened his life if he did not marry them all.

Joseph was able to convince men, that bones they  found in Illinois were those from a white, Lamanite warrior named Zelph.

Joseph was able to convince many people that Egyptians scrolls were written by the hand of Abraham and that he could translate them.

Joseph was able to convince his followers that a pile of rocks they stumbled upon in Missouri was once an alter built by Adam 6,000 years ago.

Joseph was able to convince people that the bones buried in a mound in Kinderhook, Illinois were from an ancient Jarodite and that he could translate the plates found with him.  (plates were later proven to be a forgery).

 

 

Even if all of that were true, Joseph had a remarkable talent to be able to persuade people to believe what most people would consider totally absurd.

 

 

 

 

Summary of the 11 Witnesses

 

The following summary of the witness’s lives was posted by 'justmythoughts' on Nov. 8, 2003 on the LDS critic’s website RFM:

 

THREE WITNESSES:

OLIVER COWDERY - Was born in Wells, Vermont in 1806. He learned about JS and his alleged vision, when he was boarding in the home of JS’s parents. Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith were third cousins. At the time, his profession was as a clerk, and schoolteacher. In 1829 he was baptized. He signed his name as witness to the BoM in 1830 at the age of 24. On December 18, 1832, he married Elizabeth Ann Whitmer, who was the daughter of Peter Whitmer [one of the 8 witnesses to the BoM] and sister of David Whitmer [one of the 3 witnesses]. He and Elizabeth had six children. Only one daughter, Maria Louise Cowdery, reached adulthood. In 1834 he served as Assistant President of the Church. Oliver had many issues with the early church, as well as personally with JS. Many say his final breaking point with the church stemmed from his unwillingness to accept the revelation concerning plural marriage. He was EXCOMMUNICATED on April 12, 1838. After his excommunication he studied law and became an attorney. In 1848, ten years after he was excommunicated, Oliver re-applied for membership in the church and was re-baptized. He never again held office within the church. Oliver Cowdery died in March of 1850 in Richmond, Missouri at the age of forty-three. He did not die in Utah, but at the home of fellow witness David Whitmer, who had been excommunicated from the church.

July 1938 - The Church's Elders' Journal stated "... on account of the unfaithfulness of Oliver Cowdery ... and [his] opposition to our beloved brother Joseph Smith, Jr ... [he has] been excluded from fellowship."

In 1841 the Mormons published a poem which stated "... Or Book of Mormon not his word, because denied by Oliver...". Seasons and Times, Vol 2, p482.

DAVID WHITMER - Was born in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in 1805 and was raised in a Presbyterian home. In 1828 he heard about JS through Oliver Cowdery, while visiting Palmyra NY, on a business trip. He served as a scribe to JS during the alleged translation period in 1829 at the age of 24. He was baptized into the church in 1830. He married Julia Ann Jolly 1831, and they had two children. He left the church in 1937 and was labeled an apostate. He was subsequently EXCOMMUNICATED in 1838. He was requested to lead the RLDS church, but declined their offer and any affiliation with them. He died in Richmond Missouri in 1888 at the age of 83 years old and never re-joined the church.

"If you believe my testimony to the Book of Mormon; if you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens, and told me to 'separate myself from among the Latter-day Saints'... [Address to all believers in Christ, p27, 1887.]

MARTIN HARRIS – Was born in Easttown, New York in 1783. He moved with his family to Palmyra NY when he was 9 years old. He met JS in 1827 at the age of 44. At the time he was married to his first-cousin, Lucy Harris and they had three children together. Harris served as JS’s first scribe for the alleged BoM in 1828 at the age of 45, but was removed shortly thereafter, for making sarcastic remarks. He was later re-instated as a scribe shortly after providing JS with $3,000 for expense of printing the first edition of the BoM. In [D&C Sec. 58 – 35] it talks about Harris being the first one called of God, by name to set the example before the church in laying his money before the Bishop. After the death of his wife Lucy, he married Caroline Young in 1837 and had 5 children with her. He was EXCOMMUNICATED in 1837. Five years after his excommunication, he was re-baptized in 1842. He was excommunicated AGAIN for the SECOND TIME, in 1842. He was subsequently re-baptized in 1870, 28 years after his second excommunication. During his life span, Harris changed his religious affiliation over 13 times. He died in 1875 in Clarkston Utah at the age of 92 years old after suffering a debilitating stroke.

The Mormons stated of Martin Harris, and a few other men within the pages of the church's official newspaper at the time, "a lying deceptive spirit attend them ... they are of their father, the devil ... The very countenance of Harris will show to every spiritual-minded person who sees him, that the wrath of God is upon him." [Latter-Day Saint's, Millennial Star, Vol 8 pp124-128.]


EIGHT WITNESSES:

CHRISTIAN WHITMER – born Jan 18, 1798 Penn.- Married Feb 22, 1827 to Anne Schott. Baptized April 11, 1830 – June 1830 / ordained teacher, 1831 ordained elder, Aug 21, 1833 ordained high priest - Died Nov 27, 1835 – Died 6 years after his testimony in the BOM ... BEFORE his other family members were Excommunicated.

JACOB WHITMER - born Jan 27, 1800 Penn - Married Sept 29, 1825 - Baptized April 11, 1830 - 1838 - VOLUNTARILY LEFT THE CHURCH - Died April 21, 1856

PETER WHITMER, JR. – born Sept 27, 1809 Fayette, Seneca Co, NY - Married Oct 14, 1832 Vashti Higley - June 9, 1830 baptized & ordained elder - Oct 25, 1831 ordained high priest - Died Sept 22, 1836 – Died 7 years after his testimony in the BOM ... BEFORE his other family members were Excommunicated.

JOHN WHITMER - Son of Peter Whitmer, Sr. and Mary (Musselman). Born August 27, 1802. Married Sarah Maria (Jackson). EXCOMMUNICATED in 1838. Died on 11 July 1878.

HIRAM PAGE - Born 1800 Vermont - Married Nov 10, 1825 to Catherine Whitmer - Baptized April 11, 1830 - June 9, 1830 ordained teacher - Hiram remained affiliated with David Whitmer while considering the possibility of establishing a religious alternative to institutional Mormonism. In 1838 VOLUNTARILY LEFT THE CHURCH when members of Whitmer family were excommunicated. Died Aug 12, 1852

JOSEPH SMITH, SR. – [Father of JS] - Born 1771, Topsfield, Massachusetts - Married Lucy Mack 1796; eleven children - Baptized April 6, 1830 - Mission to St. Lawrence County, New York 1830 - Ordained to the High Priesthood 1831 - Ordained Patriarch to the Church 1833 - Appointed Assistant Counselor to First Presidency 1837 - Died 1840 of consumption, Nauvoo, Illinois.

HYRUM SMITH – [Brother to JS] - Born 1804 Tunbridge, Vermont - Baptized 1829 - Assistant President of the Church, 1834 - Counselor in the First Presidency - Patriarch to the Church - Named Second Elder of the Church following Oliver Cowdery's excommunication - Associate President of the Church – Died in 1844 Carthage, Illinois with his brother JS.

SAMUEL H. SMITH – [Brother to JS] - born March 13, 1808 - b. Tunbridge, Orange Co, VT - Married Aug 13, 1834 Mary Bailey - June 9, 1830 ordained elder - June 3, 1831 ordained high priest - 1834-38 member of Kirtland High Council - March 1838 moved to Far West - January 1841 called to Presiding Bishopric of church - Died July 30, 1844.

 

 

 

 

 

Responses to these issues by faithful Latter-day Saints.

 

The witnesses said they did not actually see the plates with their natural eyes.

 

 

Faithful LDS Member response.

 

There are many statements saying the witnesses really saw and handled the plates with their own eyes and hands.  Why should I discount these statements because some other visionary statements may have also been made by the witnesses?

 

 

Critic’s response.

 

If the plates were real then why would the following phrases also be used when the witnesses described seeing the plates; ‘While praying I passed into a state of entrancement, and in that state I saw the angel and the plates’, ‘I never saw the gold plates, only in a visionary or entranced state’, ‘he only saw the plates with a spiritual eye’, ‘a visionary experience’, ‘seeing with the eyes of understanding’, ‘as shown in the vision’, ‘ never saw the plates with his natural eyes but only in vision or imagination’, ‘I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock’, ‘they were shown to me by a supernatural power’, 'No, I saw them with a spiritual eye', "I did not see them as I do that pencil case, yet I saw them with the eyes of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see anything around me - though at the time, they were covered with a cloth", ‘he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain’, etc.    

 

In the times Joseph lived people believed in magic.  Having visions was not that uncommon.  Joseph’s family also believed in magic and the power of seer stones.  Oliver Cowdery used a divining rod.  People believed in something called ‘second sight’ where people would see things as a vision in their mind.  Joseph and his peers believed in it so strongly that they would actually go and try to dig up treasure that they saw in their minds – always to no avail.

 

To these people that believed in ‘second sight’, saying they saw something with their natural eyes or in this ‘second sight’ made no difference to them.  To them it was real either way so they would often for simplicity sake say they saw something and leave it at that, which gives the impression that they saw something with their natural eyes as they would see anything else, yet they may have only saw it as a ‘second sight’ experience.

 

On the either hand, if they simply saw the plates just like everyone sees any tangible object then why on earth would they say any of these strange statements indicating it was not a normal experience like ‘I never saw them only as I see a city through a mountain?’   Have you ever tried to look at